Troy Day i agree!
jesus did however say this at the last supper..
matt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.
To say that He would not drink henceforth shows that He drank before, does it not? Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach. We are just not to become drunk, drinkers of much wine, so as to quench the Holy Spirit
No it doesnt It only shows that he will drink it NEW
NO verse in the Bible where it says He drunk (except when they falsely accused him of drinking )
No where in the last supper account does it say “wine” Jevan
Troy Day Wine was a staple at passover. If Jesus himself did not drink wine, he set a table for His disciples to drink wine. How else would the cup represent His blood? Don’t say grape juice, grape juice was not pasteurized then. In the heat of that geographical area the grape juice begins fermentation the moment it was pressed and was likely fully fermented as old wine within 3 days, but immediately started becoming new wine (beginning of fermentation process, still has alcohol) shortly after being pressed.
Troy Day look real close at Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
This was Jesus Christ talking. Did He deny what He was saying?
Jesus did say that He came eating and drinking.
Jesus knew they had seen him eat too much and drink too much wine.
If He didn’t do the first two things and they were false accusations then He wasn’t the last one also that he was accused of. Being a friend to sinners and publicans. If He is a friend to sinners and publicans then He also was a winebibber and a glutton. Meaning He may have drank too much or eaten too much.
Evidently Jesus was a large man
Troy Day Why would you deny this verse, but yet believe that Rev. 4:1 tells John to come up hither is evidence of a Pre-tribulation Rapture when He was only speaking to John.
Remove your blinders
No need to attack me with your person tone Just discuss the OP. Who are the 24 elders if the angel was speaking only to John? Wrong thread BTW this one is about wine
He said He came eating and drinking. The accusation was that He was eating and drinking too much. Jesus was/is holy. He did eat, but not too much. He did drink, but not too much.
Link Hudson I understand your point, and I believe Jesus is Holy. Eating too much does not make a person is glutton
If you study gluttony it is about riotous eating or stuffing oneself.
I don’t drink alcohol. I imagine that if I drank a wine glass full of wine I would be drunk.
But if a person who drinks wine every meal they could drink many glasses and not be drunk. I believe that is what the Savior was giving references to.
Final since Jesus wasn’t a glutton or a drunkard then he wasn’t a friend to sinners or publicans
Luke 7:33-34 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”
This correlation shows that Jesus drank wine. This is not an assumption, but implied by direct context.
No correlation needed. Actually the verse has a negative reinforcement of the phrase “not drink wine” – meaning it wasnt customary John didnt drink it The Nazarites didnt drink it Nothing says that Jesus did
No that verse says that Jesus came eating bread and drinking. Drinking something that would cause people to say he was drunkard. Wine. There is no biblical proof that Jesus took a Nazarite vow. He was a Nazarene, but not all Nazarene took the Nazarite vow.
Troy Day What do you think was in the cup? Jesus was called the Nazarene, the Branch, not the Nazarite. Why would Jesus have been opposed to drinking wine. ‘Real wine’ was a part of the Passover sedar. Do you believe Jesus kept kosher?
Jesus touched dead bodies so he could no be Nazarite My question was how did Nazarites participate in the Passover while not permitted to drink wine. Perhaps Tom Steele may wanna tells us his take on this presupposition?
Troy Day You guys crack me up sometimes, but this has always been a hot topic that shows the backwards mindset of Christian beliefs in some circles. I don’t endorse drinking alcohol, but show me the verse that outright forbids drinking alcohol, anywhere in the Bible. I mean, there IS a verse that outright forbids eating pork, going so far as saying it’s an abomination to do so. But guys like you will fight tooth and nail to justify your swine-eating ways while waging war against something that’s not even forbidden in the Bible.
Christians like you will condemn a Jew to hell for drinking wine at Passover while celebrating a counterfeit holiday in place of Passover, one that is rooted in pagan religion, that is celebrated by eating a pork ham, the very thing that the Bible specifically tells you NOT to eat, and do it to somehow honor the Lamb of God who was slaughtered on Passover with the rest of the Pesach lambs, lay in the tomb during the Sabbath and Feast of Unleavened Bread, and rose again… NOT on pagan “Easter Sunday”… on the Feast of First Fruits.
That, my friend, is a very good description of HERESY embraced by people like you.
Tom Steele If the ‘you’ you are addressing are Gentiles, God doesn’t command Gentiles outside of the land of Israel not to eat pork in the Bible. He gave Gentiles creeping things to eat.
Link Hudson 1. I assume you are talking about Genesis 9:3, I can completely shatter that argument if you need me to. 2. There were Gentiles with the Israelites when they left Egypt and the Torah was given to Moses, where the specific commandment to not eat pork, among other things, was given. Research who was in the “mixed multitude” that left with Moses and who is “the sojourner/stranger among you”. 3. There is not a single “New Testament” verse in the whole Bible that, in context, legitimately abrogates any Torah commandment about diet. 4. None of this really matters to the point that there is NOT a single verse anywhere in the Bible that forbids the consumption of alcoholic beverages, but there IS a verse that outright prohibits eating pork… and shellfish, and reptiles, and rodents, and birds of prey, and many other things.
My point was not to start up yet another endless debate about the “food laws” with people who are too blind to see the obvious. My point was that so many people, like Troy, will prohibit alcohol as a sin and something against Scripture without a single verse to back it up while allowing for swine-eating in direct contradiction to a biblical commandment. That’s the textbook definition of HYPOCRISY AND HERESY.
Tom Steele Gentiles with Israelites in the land had requirements other Gentiles did not. The apostles told Gentiles to abstain from things strangled and from blood, not from swine’s flesh.
But you do have a stronger argument than the teetotalers
Well some of us have a mindset what Matthew and Luke recorded about Jesus telling them what they accused of He did not do. But with Jesus Christ I am sure that He.visited many places per day and those Pharisees were watching and they perceived t
That he was glutton because he ate so often and they perceived that he was a wino because he drank so often. Jesus Christ did not deny it.
I don’t drink alcohol but i believe that Jesus did.
I also believe Jesus was a heavy eater. But he was a riotous type of eater that some people would eat till they were sick.
I am a obese person, but I don’t eat till i am miserable or sick.
I was raised to eat everything on your plate.
Also our family didn’t eat leftovers so my dad and I made sure it wasn’t wasted and we eat the food to keep from having leftovers. I am sedentary.
My dad was active. But he was large also
We ate till we were full, not stuffed or miserable
He came eating and drinking and they called Him a Man gluttonous and a winebibber. The beverage under discussion was winw. The Christian teetotalerism lens you read the Bible through had not evolved out of methodist preaching against distilled beverages. Drinking wine eas a part of the culture and there is no reason to think He did not drink it. His Father required wine and strong drink offerings so why would He consider the beverages to be evil.
Link Hudson Jesus was not a glutton, was not a wine bibber, and was not a friend of sinners. These were three insults/accusations hurled at Him.
Jesus didn’t hang out with sinners to get fat and wasted with his buddies….he met with them during these times to call them to repentance.
Roger David Jesus opponents took real things Jesus did and exaggerated. He came ‘eating and drinking’ and they called him a man gluttonous and a wine bibber. When he went to Zacchaeus’ house, HIs opponents said He was going to be the guest of a man who was a sinner, and Zaccheaus repented.
Troy Day He ate, but they called Him a glutton. He drank, but they called Him a winebibber. He did eat and drink, but not to excess as His opponents claimed.
Troy Day There are acouple of passages that strongly imply it. It is unreasonable to assume that He did nit based on His statement that the Son of Man came eating and drinking. Biblically, there is no reason to think that He did not. Fundamentalist teetolarism had not been invented yet. It is silly and anachronistic to read it back into the text.
There might have been one man who was not a Nazarite or Jacobite who tried teetotalarism-Timothy. Paul told him to keep himself pure but to drink a little wine for his stomach’s sake. Preaching that alll drinking alcohol is sin evolved out of Wesley’s preaching against drinking distilled liquor and even hevdrabk a glass of wine daily when he was in poor health.
Why would scripture tell deacons to not be given to an excess of wine if it were absolutely forbidden to drink any?
Pls see the comment made above about the meaning of that accusation Roger David put it to rest though Tom Steele went backwards and never answered the question
Link Hudson you still havent shown a verse have you? That kind a proves it in my book if you know what I mean BTW {laughing} if you have a KY life I have a TN life 🙂 Glad your spell checker did not say you have a KY wife in regard of your YouTube videos on multiple wives and such 🙂
Troy Day can you show any scripture to show tgat Jesus did not drink wine? He turned water into wine and let others drink it. What do you think was in the cup at the last supper? An unkosher becerage with yeast in it? Water? Tomato juice?
That’s beyond the point and does not answer the question about the Passover wine We know Jesus was not Nazarite because he touched dead bodies and more. How did Nazarites partake from Passover ? – no one is answering
It is an absolutely established fact that Jesus’ disciples, as well as the broader first-century readership of the gospel accounts, understood Jesus’ phrase “fruit of the vine” to refer to juice from grapes There is ongoing debate as to whether the grape juice was fermented or unfermented
There is a good reason why the gospel writers said Cup of the Covenant and not wine of the covenant. It is basically the Holy Grail of question 🙂
Troy Day grape juice had yeast in it. Dead yeast could be sloughed off after complete fermentation so wine could be kosher for Passover. It is only in the 20th cebtury that unfermented processed grape juice processed with modern technology could be considered kosher for passover.
The OT does bot require wine for Passover. Nazarites were okay on that one. I am assumimg the Pharisees did not create an exception to the vow somehow as a form of doctrinal corruption putting teadition over scripture.
Troy Day ir that He ate olives, or took a bath other than at His baptism or that He went to the equivalent of the restroom. But there is more direct evidence for His drinking wine in scripture tgan these other things.
I don’t think Yeshua could have been a Nazarite, the only suggestion I have heard that makes any sense about that is that He took a Nazarite vow at that last Passover. This is a theory some have proposed, stating that He is even still to this day serving His Nazarite vow that will conclude at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb when He drinks again. That sounds good, but it’s also heavily theoretical.
As noted, He touched dead bodies, so He would not have been in such a vow at least until POSSIBLY entering the vow at the Passover just prior to His execution.
Maybe this has been brought up, I have not been through all of the comments, but on what authority would anyone have accused Him of being a “winebibber” if He did not ever drink wine and therefore nobody would have seen Him drinking wine? The mere accusation indicates that His accusers would have seen Him drinking wine, wouldn’t it?
Sorry, I thought you were trying to ask me about if He took a Nazarite vow. That appears to be the specific thing you asked in the comment you tagged me in.
I asked you how Nazarites participated in the Passover
Link misread it that I am saying Jesus was a Nazarite which he was not
Roger David explained Lk 7 34 above
OK, sorry for misunderstanding then I guess. I was looking into that and cannot find any information on it, and it is an interesting question. I suppose I can reach out to some people who might be able to assist if it’s that important to you. I guess I also never gave it much thought either.
Though, I am wondering, and I would have to go back and double check, but is wine or any form of the “fruit of the vine” part of the actual Torah instructions for Passover? It seems to me, the only thing actually commanded was to eat the lamb with bitter herbs, and following was to have seven days eating unleavened bread. If there is no actual commandment to drink wine/grape juice/whatever, then there is no reason why a Nazarite could not keep the Passover.
Was there a special excuse for them to participate in the Passover, alike Link and others have observed non-drinking churches have wine for Communion or was the wine just plain juice like in some other churches we’ve observed?
He drank wine but it wasn’t as it is todays wine and you can drank wine a small amount of it like one class a day it is good for the body but I don’t drank it I don’t like the stuff
Tom Steele another hermeneutical point if I may make it beyond the answer of Roger David
IF we take Lk 7 34 to be true which it is not
we have to then by logic accept that Jesus not only drunk but was a drunkard as the verse plainly says – it was all a false accusation and could not mean Jesus drunk just a little wine every now and then Most certainly the verse does not in ANY way refer to Passover
He said He ate. They exaggerrated what He did and said He was a glutton. He drank as He admitted. They exaggerated and said ut was to excess, calling Him a winebibber.
I will look deeper into it, but I just pulled Exodus 12, Leviticus 23, Numbers 9, and Deuteronomy 16, the four places in the Torah that detail the Passover, and not one of them mentions the use of wine (or the fruit of the vine, grapes, grape juice, etc.) as part of the Passover celebration. All indications would be that this is later tradition. It’s not a “bad” tradition, just study the “four cups of Passover” and the significance given to them, and it’s a beautiful addition to Passover. Plus, all indications are that Jesus followed this four cup system and that it was either the third or fourth cup (can’t remember off the top of my head) that He refused.
In any case, I see no Torah commandment to drink any specific thing at Passover. The only thing commanded for consumption is the lamb cooked in fire with bitter herbs. So, that would be enough to allow a Nazarite to celebrate the Passover, just without the added tradition of the four cups of wine (or grape juice… I use grape juice at all the biblical Feasts because I to maintain a belief in abstinence from drinking alcohol, though I am open to anyone proven conclusively that Jesus drank wine, and if that can be proven conclusively, I’d be open to using wine at least during the Feasts, in moderation that does not allow for drunkenness… but it would take hard evidence for me the do that, and I don’t think such hard evidence would ever be obtainable).
one other verse worth looking into Link Hudson and Tom Seems in Corinth they actually began using real wine 1 Cor 11 Seems also this was not acceptable for Paul and he wrote them NOT to get trunk lest some of them may die taking the Supper unworthy
Troy Day Are you reading my whole comments, or just to the point where you have to click to “See More”? I feel like you are not getting everything I am putting out.
For the most part FB has been blocking your Link historically for whatever reason and beef they have with you At least I cant see much from your posts I have been trying to go directly to your blog and read your stuff there directly
The Corinthian question though – did Jewish churches know not to use real wine as in the Passover and Gentile churches went all the way Greek Dionysus style fiesta on the Lords Supper?
Luke 7:34 points out that Yeshua was accused of being a winebibber/drunkard. It would seem that the only way someone would have valid authority to make this accusation would be if they saw Him literally drinking wine. Maybe not to the point of getting drunk, but they would have had to at least seen Him drink it at some point. How to you explain the accusation being made if there was never a witness to Him drinking? (Let everything be established by two or three witnesses, right?)
That’s fine, but that doesn’t really answer the question. Again, I am pro-abstinence, I want to emphasize that. But on what authority could someone make this accusation if nobody ever saw him drink wine at all? There is no basis for it if He never drank it, even in moderation.
Troy Day No, Jesus was raised in Nazareth. Do you have any evidence that people from Nazareth did not drink wine? Mary lived in Nazareth, and she asked Jesus for help when a wedding at Cana, about three miles from Nazareth, ran out of wine. They drank wine in Cana. In fact, some men would get drunk at a feast, and then the hosts would bring out the bad wine.
Troy Day I don’t know about that, and nobody else has expressed issues with that in any other groups. I’m talking about comments on THIS post, where a longer comment cuts off and you have to click that little “See More” link to open the rest of the comment.
I don’t think you are seeing everything I am saying though, because I pointed out that there is no commandment in the Torah to have wine at Passover before Link Hudson did. But my statement was at the end of a longer comment that cut off and you have to click to open the rest of the comment.
Some of your comments have been this long too and I have had to do the same to read the whole comment.
Tom Steele back in the day Melvin Harter had a good point on the Corithians drinking in verses 18-19. There were divisions and heresies in the Corinthian Church. Has it been considered that their drunkenness in vs 21 was their heresy?
From another way round. In light of 2 Sam 16:1, Israelites have their own method already developed since long past to dry grapes, from which no doubt they get juice. In fact, for any who wants to avoid wine, they have another option of drink. Jesus might be one among them, I guess.
Read it again, please. “When David had passed a little beyond the summit, Ziba the servant of Mephibosheth met him, with a couple of donkeys saddled, bearing two hundred loaves of bread, a hundred bunches of RAISINS, a hundred of summer fruits, and a skin of wine.”
2 Samuel 16:1 ESV http://bible.com/59/2sa.16.1.esv
Raisins = a partially dried grape.
Thangsan Hisfootstep did you read Proverbs 31:6 while you were reading? You mentioned a verse about not loving wine and oil. That is not the same as forbidding wine. Do you think it is a sin to fry in oil? To put oil in the salad dressing, or to put olive oil on as lotion? Why would wine be forbidden. If we consume too much expensive stuff it can lead to poverty. Psalm 104 tells us God gave man wine to gladden the heart and oil to make his face shine.
Warnins against excess and outright foridding are not the same thing.
I have several but I will wait on bro. Tom Steele to bring us his find before I present my conclusion For one, little male children also participated in the Passover and they still do
Troy Day That is not a reasonable interpretation, that Paul opposed ‘real wine’ in I Corinthians 11. If that were his idea, it is noticebly absent from the passage. He mentions two extremes– one man is hungry and another is drunken. Neither extreme was acceptable. The verse shows they used ‘real wine’– which was just a fact of life back then. They did not have Welch’s. The issue is moderation. Everyone should have eaten. No one should have had excess. The fact that ‘real wine’ was the beverage consumed was not an issue.
The New Testament repeatedly says not to partake of excess of wine. If you told your kids not to eat too much chocolate, would it be reasonable for them to infer that all eating of chocolate was strictly forbidden?
I have heard from another Pastor in the AoG that they believe this is the issue that will bring a split in the AoG. Alcohol. How sad if that happens…God forbid.
Link Hudson you have now moved from theology to the field of general biology and wine making technology but you still have not shown a single verse from the Bible that says Jesus drank wine
Cant make a doctrine on a single verse that does not say but just strongly imply it Roger David Thangsan Hisfootstep When Tom Steele bring us a report on the nazarete vow eating the passover I will make up my mind on OT use of wine in holy sacraments and temple worship I have strong OT verse base that many in not most in ministry used no wine at all; Tom if you just copy paste the whole text instead of just a link that FB could block pls I hear random reports like William DeArteaga blocked from responding to ppl FB is getting to be a strange platform Thank GOD we’ve archived most on http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/
It’s funny you say this because it seems you have made doctrine saying Jesus never drank when the scriptures never explicity say He never did. They actually imply the opposite.
Every verse in the NT says he never did I see the argument from silent you are making and its a nice try but you see yourself how it doesnt prove anything. When it is all said and one 27 books in the NT, 290 chapter over 8000 verses and not one saying Jesus drunk wine This proves it
No Sir. It does not say that He emphatically did not drink wine. It neither positively confirms He did either. Your post is appears to be argumentative and you seem to be just brow beating people with your own opinions and doctrines that are not definitively supported by scripture. It is okay to debate scriptures and opinions as long as you are open to hear and accept other sides as possibilities unless you are able to emphatically prove them wrong. It is not okay to bully people theologically, especially on dividing topics as this when you do not have definitive, explicit scripture to so. Even if you do have the scriptural support, it is never okay to bully people. To say that only your way is correct when there is lack of evidence and to not even consider other peoples sides when there the same lack of evidence comes off as arrogant and prideful. Why should anyone continue to share anything with someone when that person will only accept or consider the conclusions they have already have come to? Is that a teachable heart?
No Sir. The absence of the fact of saying He emphatically did drink wine does not prove He did not drink wine. It neither positively confirms He did either. Your post appears to be argumentative and you seem to be just brow beating people with your own opinions and doctrines that are not definitively supported by scripture. What is the point of this post? It is okay to debate scriptures and opinions as long as you are open to hear and accept other sides as possibilities unless you are able to emphatically prove them wrong. It is not okay to bully people theologically, especially on dividing topics as this when you do not have definitive, explicit scripture to so. Even if you do have the scriptural support, it is never okay to bully people. But to communicate truth in love. To say that only your way is correct when there is lack of evidence and to not even consider other peoples sides when there the same lack of evidence comes off as arrogant and prideful. Why should anyone continue to share anything with someone when that person will only accept or consider the conclusions they have already have come to? Again, what is the point of this post?
Yes. I say yes, it is a possibility. You can’t even consider the text that implies that He may have. You won’t accept the text that implies that He could have. You say He did not, and state that the absence of proof text that He did, supports that He did not. This is in error. Text can not emphatically prove that He did or did not. I have continued to ask to you provide proof text to support your position that Jesus emphatically did not drink wine. Neither side can provide solid proof text either way. What is the point of the OP?
Phil Brown Jr. Like I already said I see the point you want to make but its just not there – in the text If you so insist I will be more than happy to take the Lk 7 passage in the original greek as a separate topic and we can look into it together but the wine is just not there – not even implied
Actually no. The verse does not contain the word wine straight forward All your betting on Lk 7 has been precisely the semantics of the English translations while the Greek is pretty clear that in fact Jesus did NOT drink
So you are saying that the Greek says somwthing different than all the other English transations? Why has not all the Greek transkators caught this mistranlation over all this time?
I am saying the Greek does not say wine; neither implies it So you can make your doctrine from general culture, biology, technology or even frontology if you wish but cant make it from the Bible It’s just not there Not even implied
Link Hudson Phil Brown Jr. your only bet here would be on John 19:29–30 but it comes with a catch
29 A jar full of sour wine was sitting there; so they fixed a sponge full of sour wine on a hyssop branchp and held it up to his mouth.
30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished.”q Then bowing his head, he gave up his spirit.r
Yes ,it was staple food for the middle east together wiz bread. But they would dilute concentrated wine of 10ltrs with 5ltrs of water.to dillute it. Even today is still outsanding custom
Yes he did. If not wine specifically, some other beverage with alcohol. Otherwise the Pharisees would not have been able to accuse him of being a drunkard. I’m not saying he was a drunk. Drinking alcohol doesn’t make you a drink. But you can’t call someone a drunkard if they don’t drink alcohol.
According to history, most people that could drank wine, because the water was not good and used to wash clothes and with along bodily functions, drained or dumped into most waters. Just from what I was taught.
yeap, and it the bible clearly says and the culture backs that up. Not even just a little super watered down stuff either, enough that he got accused of being a drunkard.
“33. John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34***The Son of Man has come eating and drinking***, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”
Jesus himself said that he drank wine in this passage. Notice the context.
The word juice is used in the Bible. If it was any other beverage, then that’s what the Bible would say.
He told the disciples to sip the wine that was served at His supper.
Half of us don’t know WHAT we put in our mouths when we remember the Lord’s broken body and blood. Some of that ‘bread’ tastes and eats like gummy paper and looks like PUFFED rice.
Is there any wrong of dringking wine? In my opinion it depends on your purpose why you drink wine, it should not be defile your spiritual life as well.
Troy Day know your bible sir. The wine represent the blood of jesus christ in the Lord’s supper. If you tell me that is not a wine and it is a grape fruit juice then your salvation rots.
However, you can analyze by yourself in the Holy Scripture. For example, Luke 22: 18. For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
Yes but take note wine before is different not like the wine you see every where.. I also drink homemade wine like rice wine but little amount. Not to the extend you get drunk n you don’t know your self… Remember. Timothy he use it for medicine..for Jesus and the opostles it’s for the Holy Communion bread and wine…
And how do you know? Bible never says u cannot drink wine. In fact paul told Timothy to for his stomach sake. He also said we were not to drink It to the point one gets drunk.
You make a good point. Most people don’t realize that the water had bacteria in it that would often cause stomach problems, so they would drink wine instead.
I was also taught that the fermenting process was different back then, and the alcohol content was far less than what we have in our wine today.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe the alcohol content in the wine back then was at best equivalent to what we have in our wine coolers.
Bernie Waldron do not know about that but alchohol is alchohol and God only rebuked the abuse of it not the dri k itself. Just like we are not abuse eating the point we get sick. Both are miner issues and way to much time is spent t on debating the issues
Troy Day
Luke 7 indicates that Jesus drank alcohol at times. While John the Baptist did not drink wine, it is implied that Jesus did drink wine, for the religious leaders of the day accused Him of being a drunkard.
Troy Day Jesus said: “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'” (Luke 7:33–34).
Troy Day Jesus made and Served the best wine ever made. Read: According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine (John 2:10–11).
It’s not what enters a man that defiles him, but what comes out of his heart(for out of the heart comes…) . Lets never forget this , with Christ intent is prior to content… Even when questions were asked.
I don’t think the problem is the wine, but the sinfulness in our hearts to use everything as an opportunity to reveal the state of our hearts …His disciples ate food without washing hands, he healed on the sabbath…
If a knife is made to slice tomatoes and I use it to cut off someone’s ear, can I blame the person who made the knife?
Troy Day, are those taken to celebrate God as Christ did in the last supper or for some other reasons, trying to be elated without God?
The heart of man wants to be like God and have extraordinary experiences without accepting God,as in the time of where the tower of Babel was build, to Invade the heavens and put our Gods there, throwing out the one true God, but I don’t think theres a problem with building houses or tall buildings. The problem is our heart.. That’s the point I’m trying to make
Troy Day CBD is not a problem it is not psychoactive. THC is psychoactive and it is used as an anti epilepsy medicine in conjunction with CBD. It is now shown to assist people with Parkinsons disease and people who have had trauma to the head.
Morphine is extremely addictive and is used to alieviate pain in people with cancer etc.
When used medically how will you rate it?
Ariel Rollepa you are confusing a Nazarite with a Nazareth. One is an oath and the other is a person from Nazareth. Jesus was a Nazareth, not a Nazarite.
HOW IS WINE DEPICTED IN SCRIPTURE?
Wine was the common drink of the Jews, enjoyed with meals and shared with friends (Gen. 14:18; Jn. 2:3). It was also an essential part in the worship of the people of God in both Testaments.
The “drink offering” consisted of wine (Ex 29:40; Lev. 23:13) and the people of God brought wine when offering sacrifices (1 Sm 1:24). The Jews even kept wine in the temple (1 Chr 9:29). In Isaiah 62:9 the people are blessed by the Lord in such a way as is depicted in drinking wine in the sanctuary before the presence of God. In Deuteronomy 14 we read “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. And you shall not neglect the Levite who is within your towns, for he has no portion or inheritance with you.”
— DEUTERONOMY 14:22–27
No. He had to fulfill ALL the law and prophets and psalms.
A priest could not drink while in office. Jesus is the high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. They called him a wine bibber and a devil. But of course he wasn’t either.
Michael Wesolek Sr. A priest had to drink wine while in office. Wine was part of the sacraments, religious feasts. Also, the wine was mixed with water to make the water safe to drink. Basically a person in those times either drank wine or they died of dehydration or disease.
Leviticus 10:9 – Do not drink wine nor strong drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.
They could not drink wine while they were ministering in the tabernacle.
Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers
(9) Do not drink wine.—As the command that the priests are to abstain from any intoxicating liquors when performing their sacred functions follows so closely upon the death of Nadab and Abihu, the opinion obtained as early at least as the time of Christ that there is a connection between the specific sin and the general law, that the two sons of Aaron drank wine to excess when they offered strange fire, and that the present prohibition is based upon that circumstance. Accordingly, the Apostle enjoins that a bishop “must not be given to wine,” that “deacons must not be given to much wine” (1Timothy 3:2-3). A similar law existed among the ancient Greeks and Persians, enjoining the priests to abstain from wine.
Nor strong drink.—The word (shēchār) here rendered strong drink, is the general name of intoxicating drinks, whether made of wheat, barley, millet, apples, dates, honey, or other fruits. One of the four intoxicating drinks which are prohibited among the Mahommedans in India is called “Sachar.”
When ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation.—Better, when ye go into the tent of meeting. The Palestinian Chaldee adds here, “as thy sons did who died by the burning fire.” The same precept is repeated in Ezekiel 44:21, “Neither shall any priest drink wine when they enter into the inner court.” The injunction that on these particular occasions the priests are to abstain from taking it clearly implies that, ordinarily, when not going into the tent of meeting—that is, when not performing their sacred functions in the sanctuary—they were not forbidden to use it if required.
There should be no objection to Jesus drinking wine. God asked the Israelites to tithe the wine as other products (Deut 12:17) and Jesus did not object to it in Cana, rather actively provided it. This is different from drunkenness or inappropriately exaggerated drinking. On the other hand we don’t have clear evidence Jesus drank wine or not. Meaning that is not consequential.
John West good question, but we simply don’t have clear evidence he did, right? It is possible he did, but not certainly he did. Perhaps he had no objection to it but just didn’t drink it. We just don’t have clear evidence he did. That’s all.
John West not exactly. The point is, if Jesus drinking (or not drinking) wine is of any value for our lives it would have been written. Did Jesus comb his hair? Did Mary have children after Jesus? If any of these and other questions is of value to our lives it would have been clearly written. It is safe to say Jesus had wine, he combed his hair and Mary had other children, but these were simply not mentioned because these are not important to our lives or to God’s plan.
Jalal Aram Clearly you are missing the true meaning of biblical interpretation.
The Bible reveals sufficient truth about God but not exhaustive truth. It does not tell us everything that God has revealed to His creation.
The Bible Is Selective In What It Reveals
Scripture informs us that not everything that Jesus said and did was recorded in the New Testament. The Gospel according John wrote.
Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name (John 20:30,31).
Scripture speaks of other times when God has spoken but the contents of what God said were not revealed. We know from John’s gospel that the words and events about the Lord Jesus that were recorded were only selective of the many more things that Jesus said and did. That’s why God continue to give us revaluation by way of the Holy Spirit to reveal knowledge and wisdom that was not written.
There’s nothing unbiblical about wine, in fact it is biblical! And yes, Jesus drank from “the fruit of the vine” and will do so again! So what exactly is the issue? It is drunkenness and being under an altered state of consciousness. The Bible tells us to be somber minded and clear thinkers. Let us stop the falsehoods that drinking wine is a sin or what rot!
There would be no reason not to think that Jesus/Yeshua drank wine, as he was a first-century Jew. The ancients drank wine, celebrated ritual feast days with wine, and used wine in their daily meals. There is absolutely no competing evidence that the ancient Hebrews did not traditionally or culturally drink wine; unless there was a prophet who does not drink wine or alcohol and then the scripture makes that very clear why they were exempt from drinking it for a Godly purpose. However, this is never stated in the story of Jesus. We do know that Jesus used wine as a subject in parables and it is spiritually symbolic. Moreover, the only book of the Old Testament that doesn’t mention wine is in the book of Jonah. In Matthew 26:29
Jesus states quite clearly:
“I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine (wine) from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” This in itself would have you believe that Jesus had drank wine on earth during his incarnation. But let’s look a little closer. We see that Christ’s first miracle was the turning of water into wine at the wedding, and at the
last supper, we find him giving the wine as the symbol of his blood to be shed for sin.
Now let us closely examine the time and place in which Christ lived and note the drink of every region across the Holy Land, from Judea to Turkey to Greece and beyond, and in all these regions and people groups they historically drank wine. Archaeological evidence has a bounty of wine jars and vats and the ancient vineyards discovered that were used for wine production. Not only was wine considered beneficial for health, as it is today, it was especially useful to drink when compared to many nasty water born illnesses. So, wine was the common table drink found typically at every meal. It is historically accurate to add that more high quality wines were also enjoyed at high holy days and festivals and weddings. There was no way in that time that any kind of “juice” (ie grape juice) was able to be preserved without fermentation. Truly it is next to impossible in a place like Palestine, especially given the technology of their day.
More so, we find in Luke 7:33-34 Jesus himself proclaims:“For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!”
*Please note that the JKV rendering of “winebibber” is oinopotes in the Greek and literally means: wine drinker.
Thus, Jesus indeed drank wine! And why not? He created it!
Troy Day I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” (Matthew 26:29, ESV)
Brian Bailey Wine is always fermented. That’s what makes it wine. Wine was different back then. It was fermented off the vine and pressed. Also, wine was used often in feasts including the Sabbath. As commanded in the Torah.
Brian Bailey Lastly, had Jesus turned water into grapejuice that wouldn’t have been very impressive at all. Not a miracle either. Anyone can turn water into grapejuice. However, had he turned it into wine, that is impressive and a miracle, because the fermenting process is an art and it takes a long time to get right. Not to mention that the host mentions people getting drunk. So it was a strong drink indeed.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu “The Mishna [a collection of oral Jewish traditions] states that the Jews were in the habit of drinking boiled wine” (Kitto’s Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, vol. 2, p. 447). Naturally, this wine would be entirely free of alcohol as a result of the boiling, if not also from the manner of preservation.
Brian Bailey The mishnah is a book of tradition. The Jews drank wine. The Bible proves that. Not the Mishnah. Interesting that you would think the Mishnah would have more creditability than the Bible.
Brian Bailey No, I disregard the Mishnah because it doesn’t line up with what the Bible says about wine. The Mishnah is a traditional book. Little understand it. It’s not the Bible, and holds little historical authority. Not to mention it was written centuries later.
Brian Bailey The Bible proves that the Jewish people drank wine, a strong drink. From Genesis to Revelation. Wine is not defined as anything else. That fact that you use the Mishnah to disprove the Bible is a little odd to me.
Brian Bailey The Bible describes wine as a fermented drink. You are way off. The definition of wine is a fermented drink. The host says that Jesus saved the best wine for now. He also mentions getting drunk on the previous wine.
Brian Bailey Alright, I’m obviously fighting a losing battle here, especially when you use the Mishnah. If you can’t think logically and learn the truth, there is no point in me going in circles. Good day.
it would literally take drinking for hours and hours to get drunk off their wine. So no Jesus never bothered drinking all day. He was too busy smacking devils around in the face.
Brian Bailey if wine is not fermented why does the bible say Noah got drunk on wine? Jesus turned water into wine. Are you saying that word is not perfectly preserved 100%? That the word wine does not actually mean wine? Dangerous path to start that.
Yes God drink a wine.and i will say u most read it in proverb 31 , he drink wine at norm time i think, kindly correct me if im wrong..God bless everyone
Chris Hutchinson So what did they call juice…you NEVER see the word juice in NT scripture but documents say that drinking non-fermented wine was common.
Brian Bailey they probably called it juice. Do we not have a separate word for juice and wine? I think it would be fair to say every language has a separate word, and anyway I hardly think they had diluting juice back then. Up until later Centuries why was always drunk as the drink of choice. Why at a wedding Would they have drunk juice? The wine was because it was a celebratory drink. There was other delicacies like Goats milk they would have chose if it was for any other reason.
Brian Bailey I don’t know, but they would not have called it after something else just for the sake of it. If they didn’t have a word for juice, but had juice they would have made a word for it.
Water did not store well in barrels. It often became contaminated. Alcohol was more resistant to contamination which is why for thousands of years man depended on Alcohol. Not the best way to hydrate but it worked.
Guys chill, we live in a modern world, me as a woman..i experience many things..and drink with friends..its help us grow being a human. Coz for all experiences even it is good or wrong u most counted it, and called experience, all have freedom, God is a fair God.and nobody’s perfect. So for me, we can drink wine but No to drunk, and we need repentance and forgiveness if we are trespass, and follow God before its too late, lov u all and God bless everyone and be blessed ??❤
Troy Day The event of Jesus changing water to wine as described shows that the wine was alcoholic in content. He also said at the last supper, “I will not drink the fruit of the vine with you until I am with you in my father‘s kingdom.“
Will we drink wine in heaven? Yes!
I cannot prove to you from Scripture that it is illegal to drink wine for a Christian. But I can prove to you from Scripture that it is illegal to be drunk.
Troy Day ? that dude‘s (in Atlanta) problem was that he resisted arrest; that is the case in almost every situation where the police overreact. So the real problem our nation is facing is “lawlessness”not for the police brutality. it is illegal to resist arrest and if you do you get another charge on top of what you’re being arrested for.
Not fermented wine.
My Lord was without sin, without blemish.
Nor will He cause others to stumble.
This question continues to divide His Body.
Most often people use Jesus’ first miracle to justify their indulgence.
The Jesus I serve is pure, holy and without sin.
Mark Pliska the Bible does not say it is a sin to drink. It says we are not to to be drunk due to excess. The Bible speaks more against gluttony then it does against drinking.
Some religions take liberties in changing the Words of God because things don’t fit their religious ideals or because of self- righteouness.
Under the LAW there were grain, [wine] and oil offerings made to God as required.
If it was “grape juice” as some teach God would have said so but to the contrary it was called “strong drink” fermented.
*Jesus’s very first miracle was turning many large jars of water into wine.
That’s what constituted it a MIRACLE… wine has to (age) some time to be considered a (fine wine).
Please read-
John 2:10-11
Yes I believe he did,it appears in scripture that Jesus took a cup of wine and said this is my blood poured out for many. And he then stated later I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine again again until I drink it wit you in my fathers kingdom.
Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Yes, but not to the point of being drunk. We know He partook in wine. At the wedding in Cana when Jesus turned the water into wine, the Greek word we get wine from is Oinos. It’s the same word Paul used in Ephesians when warning believers not to drink to the point of being drunk. It’s also the same word used when he tells Timothy drinking it in moderation will help his stomach.
There are many valid reasons to warn people against drinking in our culture, namely that it has negative connotations with many they would effect our witness. But we do more harm than good when we claim the Bible forbids drinking all togetherness.
Joel Murrah in the process of wine making
The wine has to age that is get old.
Old wine isn’t fresh its old.
The governor of the feast tasted new or the best wine. Jesus doesn’t make old he makes all things new
Two glasses of pure water.
One ounce of alcohol in one,
Five ounces of alcohol in the other
Which one is drunk ?
Both, just one is more drunk
the water is not pure any more
Drink the pure living water of Gods Holy Word
Jesus was the human incarnation of the Creator God of the Old Testament (John 1:1-3, 14). Fifteen hundred years earlier, when He commanded through Moses how the children of Israel should observe the various Feasts of the Lord, He declared that part of their celebration including purchasing and partaking of wine and strong drink (Deuteronomy 14:26). HOW the mere drinking of these beverages became a sin, I do not know. Do you remember that Jesus’ first miracle was changing water to wine? Certainly the wedding guests would be drinking the wine He made! According to Scripture, it is only a sin to be DRUNK with wine.
Anthony R. Vacanti there are 13 Greek words translated into the english word wine.
There are 8 Hebrew words translated into the English word wine.
If I used one word how would you translate it? Come over for a (DRINK) what do I mean by drink. Milk, soda, coffee, tea , water, booze …what word do i mean by (DRINK)
Anthony R. Vacanti the wine taster said: why did you save the best wine till now? Most people start with the good stuff and then when the guests are drunk you bring out the cheap stuff
Michael Wesolek Sr. While there may be 13 Greek words in literature that can be or is translated wine, that is not true in the New Testament: New Testament writers use only two words: The first is “oinos.” It is a fermented beverage as evidenced by the reaction of the steward when he tasted it (John 2:10). Such a response cannot be applied to mere grape juice! Oinos is used when Jesus turned water into wine, AND it is used when Paul wrote in Ephesians 5:18: “Be not drunk with wine (oinos) wherein is excess.” The other Greek word, “gleukos” is used only once, and it is also a fermented beverage as evidenced by its use: On the Day of Pentecost, when the disciples were speaking in tongues, they were accused of being drunk, or, “full of new wine” (Acts 2:13). In the Old Testament there are actually 13 Hebrew words translated “wine.” The verse I cited in my original reply where God encouraged Israel to celebrate His Feasts with wine and strong drink is the Hebrew word, “yayin.” It is a fermented drink as evidenced by Noah’s drinking “yayin” and getting drunk in Genesis 9:21. Again, drinking wine in not forbidden in Scripture, only drinking it to excess and getting drunk is.
Anthony R. Vacanti two pure glasses of water.
1 ounce if alcohol in one glass, 5 ounces of alcohol in the other
Which one is drunk ? Both are, one must a little more than the other.
Drink the pure water of God’s word
Monique Davis in there culture it was frowned upon to get drunk. Now we know fermentation will take place so the drink was two parts water and one part wine.
Donald Peacock Can’t take it upon yourself to make assumptions. God made the fruit of the vine and all phases of its metamorphoses. It’s the word FILLED and STRONG we have to look at KNOWING the Gin, Vodka, and Tequila are STRONG but that a sip doesn’t caused full drunkenness.
With wine, a whole glass will not intoxicate a man…
Look up juice in the Bible, then try to tell us that Christ didn’t know how distinguish it from WINE in His word. Wine that He made.
Monique Davis I don’t make assumptions. Study their culture! The reasons why there are so many issues that people have with the bible is that they don’t understand culture.
Donald Peacock is this culture in the Bible? Where’s your scripture from Leviticus. He gave instructions for how to prepare meat and all necessary specificities there. So you SHOULD have a scripture to support this thing you’re saying was a command from God. This is about what GOD SAID, and not something else people developed over time.
Jesus Christ’s never talks about mixing wine concoctions with water.
Don’t come at me with concepts uninspired by GOD in antiquity… Concepts that show YOU don’t have the reverence for God to not add to His word or put words in His mouth…
You can’t even distinguish God from wicked men, so how ’bout you don’t come at me at all…
You Have NO biblical and NO spiritual support for what you believe. ?
Mark Pliska Luke didn’t specify age of the wine Jesus drank – nor would it make much difference. Wine was distinct from “strong drink” – which had a significantly higher alcohol content.
Jesus reference to “new” wine being put into old or new bottles was a teaching against syncretism – the mixing of the gospel with the traditions of men.
While Jesus was from Nazareth, there is no indication in Scripture that he took the Nazarite vow – which, among other things, would prohibit him from drinking wine or even eating grapes. (Numbers 6:2-4)
Wine yes, part of Jews diet, alcohol no, like jesus would.sit down with his desciples drinking beer and other alcoholic breverage and doing acts like heathen sinner NO!!!!
Julius Leysa the wine taster said: why did you save the best wine till now? Most people start with the good stuff and then when the guests are drunk you bring out the cheap stuff
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu alcohol is not in the bible. There is no text in the bible that they drink fermented drinks, I never know someone who drink alcohol who don’t like to be drunk. By the way have you read the story of Noah and Lot?
Almost every book in the Bible mentions Alcohol. Paul mentions it in his writings. It’s mentioned in Genesis. It’s also a Commandment to drink it in the Torah. It’s mentioned in the Prophets. It seems you have no idea what the Bible says.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu give me the verse sir? Don’t give me reading stuff from modern Christian perspective who doesn’t know rather than fulfilling there self desire and longing. It all over the Bible yet you can not cite one. WHERE?
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu wine made of grapes. It doesn’t naturally an alcoholic beverage like others. Jews custom is for diet and religious festivals. They even drink it during the Lord supper. If you say wine is alcoholic beverages and make it an excuse to get drunk then you are mislead. Alcohol is made in that very purpose.
Julius Leysa Wine is a fermented drink. Do you not know what wine is? Wine was drank all through the Bible. Wine was drank by Jesus at Passover. When you ferment grapes it gets turned into Alcohol.
The fact that He drank wine, and served wine to people, is evidence that wine drinking is not a sin. However, when He did that some people spoke badly of Him, saying they were right to ignore His preaching because He was “a glutton and a winebibber”.
Come on Ricky Grimsley Link Hudson kill it on this on 🙂
Yes Jesus drank wine.
one scripture from the actual Bible where it actually says exactly that – just one pls !!!
That’s like asking if he breathed air.
naah – not a single verse abou it
Troy Day i agree!
jesus did however say this at the last supper..
matt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.
To say that He would not drink henceforth shows that He drank before, does it not? Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach. We are just not to become drunk, drinkers of much wine, so as to quench the Holy Spirit
No it doesnt It only shows that he will drink it NEW
NO verse in the Bible where it says He drunk (except when they falsely accused him of drinking )
No where in the last supper account does it say “wine” Jevan
Troy Day wine was a common part of the Passover feast by this time. What was in the cup?
Troy Day Wine was a staple at passover. If Jesus himself did not drink wine, he set a table for His disciples to drink wine. How else would the cup represent His blood? Don’t say grape juice, grape juice was not pasteurized then. In the heat of that geographical area the grape juice begins fermentation the moment it was pressed and was likely fully fermented as old wine within 3 days, but immediately started becoming new wine (beginning of fermentation process, still has alcohol) shortly after being pressed.
Troy Day look real close at Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
This was Jesus Christ talking. Did He deny what He was saying?
Jesus did say that He came eating and drinking.
Jesus knew they had seen him eat too much and drink too much wine.
If He didn’t do the first two things and they were false accusations then He wasn’t the last one also that he was accused of. Being a friend to sinners and publicans. If He is a friend to sinners and publicans then He also was a winebibber and a glutton. Meaning He may have drank too much or eaten too much.
Evidently Jesus was a large man
does it say wine?
Troy Day did he deny it
it didnt say nothing to be denied – just general talk
Troy Day Jesus had heard their talk and knew what He had done. So He used their talk, but He did not deny or call them liars as He was known.
Verse that says Jesus drunk wine pls
Troy Day Why would you deny this verse, but yet believe that Rev. 4:1 tells John to come up hither is evidence of a Pre-tribulation Rapture when He was only speaking to John.
Remove your blinders
No need to attack me with your person tone Just discuss the OP. Who are the 24 elders if the angel was speaking only to John? Wrong thread BTW this one is about wine
He said He came eating and drinking. The accusation was that He was eating and drinking too much. Jesus was/is holy. He did eat, but not too much. He did drink, but not too much.
Link Hudson I understand your point, and I believe Jesus is Holy. Eating too much does not make a person is glutton
If you study gluttony it is about riotous eating or stuffing oneself.
I don’t drink alcohol. I imagine that if I drank a wine glass full of wine I would be drunk.
But if a person who drinks wine every meal they could drink many glasses and not be drunk. I believe that is what the Savior was giving references to.
Final since Jesus wasn’t a glutton or a drunkard then he wasn’t a friend to sinners or publicans
Phil Brown Jr. Does your Bible say “wine” or just cup?
And are you just assuming there was wine in the cup?
What did Nazoreans drink at Passover?
Yes Jesus was a Nazarene, but what text do you have that He ever took the Nazarite vow?
Luke 7:33-34 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”
This correlation shows that Jesus drank wine. This is not an assumption, but implied by direct context.
No correlation needed. Actually the verse has a negative reinforcement of the phrase “not drink wine” – meaning it wasnt customary John didnt drink it The Nazarites didnt drink it Nothing says that Jesus did
No that verse says that Jesus came eating bread and drinking. Drinking something that would cause people to say he was drunkard. Wine. There is no biblical proof that Jesus took a Nazarite vow. He was a Nazarene, but not all Nazarene took the Nazarite vow.
Troy Day What do you think was in the cup? Jesus was called the Nazarene, the Branch, not the Nazarite. Why would Jesus have been opposed to drinking wine. ‘Real wine’ was a part of the Passover sedar. Do you believe Jesus kept kosher?
Jesus touched dead bodies so he could no be Nazarite My question was how did Nazarites participate in the Passover while not permitted to drink wine. Perhaps Tom Steele may wanna tells us his take on this presupposition?
Troy Day You guys crack me up sometimes, but this has always been a hot topic that shows the backwards mindset of Christian beliefs in some circles. I don’t endorse drinking alcohol, but show me the verse that outright forbids drinking alcohol, anywhere in the Bible. I mean, there IS a verse that outright forbids eating pork, going so far as saying it’s an abomination to do so. But guys like you will fight tooth and nail to justify your swine-eating ways while waging war against something that’s not even forbidden in the Bible.
Christians like you will condemn a Jew to hell for drinking wine at Passover while celebrating a counterfeit holiday in place of Passover, one that is rooted in pagan religion, that is celebrated by eating a pork ham, the very thing that the Bible specifically tells you NOT to eat, and do it to somehow honor the Lamb of God who was slaughtered on Passover with the rest of the Pesach lambs, lay in the tomb during the Sabbath and Feast of Unleavened Bread, and rose again… NOT on pagan “Easter Sunday”… on the Feast of First Fruits.
That, my friend, is a very good description of HERESY embraced by people like you.
Troy Day I would assume they would not drink, which wasn’t actually required in the Old Testament.
Tom Steele If the ‘you’ you are addressing are Gentiles, God doesn’t command Gentiles outside of the land of Israel not to eat pork in the Bible. He gave Gentiles creeping things to eat.
Link Hudson 1. I assume you are talking about Genesis 9:3, I can completely shatter that argument if you need me to. 2. There were Gentiles with the Israelites when they left Egypt and the Torah was given to Moses, where the specific commandment to not eat pork, among other things, was given. Research who was in the “mixed multitude” that left with Moses and who is “the sojourner/stranger among you”. 3. There is not a single “New Testament” verse in the whole Bible that, in context, legitimately abrogates any Torah commandment about diet. 4. None of this really matters to the point that there is NOT a single verse anywhere in the Bible that forbids the consumption of alcoholic beverages, but there IS a verse that outright prohibits eating pork… and shellfish, and reptiles, and rodents, and birds of prey, and many other things.
My point was not to start up yet another endless debate about the “food laws” with people who are too blind to see the obvious. My point was that so many people, like Troy, will prohibit alcohol as a sin and something against Scripture without a single verse to back it up while allowing for swine-eating in direct contradiction to a biblical commandment. That’s the textbook definition of HYPOCRISY AND HERESY.
He wants to tag me into these discussion… He can take what I dish out.
Tom Steele Gentiles with Israelites in the land had requirements other Gentiles did not. The apostles told Gentiles to abstain from things strangled and from blood, not from swine’s flesh.
But you do have a stronger argument than the teetotalers
OK, so then, let’s have a séance, which Gentiles would also not be prohibited from then, call up the Apostle Paul, and have him clear this up for us.
Sorcery is a work of the flesh.
Well some of us have a mindset what Matthew and Luke recorded about Jesus telling them what they accused of He did not do. But with Jesus Christ I am sure that He.visited many places per day and those Pharisees were watching and they perceived t
That he was glutton because he ate so often and they perceived that he was a wino because he drank so often. Jesus Christ did not deny it.
I don’t drink alcohol but i believe that Jesus did.
I also believe Jesus was a heavy eater. But he was a riotous type of eater that some people would eat till they were sick.
I am a obese person, but I don’t eat till i am miserable or sick.
I was raised to eat everything on your plate.
Also our family didn’t eat leftovers so my dad and I made sure it wasn’t wasted and we eat the food to keep from having leftovers. I am sedentary.
My dad was active. But he was large also
We ate till we were full, not stuffed or miserable
Still no verse, just general talk
lots of posts Phil still no verse saying Jesus drank wine
He came eating and drinking and they called Him a Man gluttonous and a winebibber. The beverage under discussion was winw. The Christian teetotalerism lens you read the Bible through had not evolved out of methodist preaching against distilled beverages. Drinking wine eas a part of the culture and there is no reason to think He did not drink it. His Father required wine and strong drink offerings so why would He consider the beverages to be evil.
Link Hudson Jesus was not a glutton, was not a wine bibber, and was not a friend of sinners. These were three insults/accusations hurled at Him.
Jesus didn’t hang out with sinners to get fat and wasted with his buddies….he met with them during these times to call them to repentance.
of course He was not – it was false accusations
Roger David Jesus opponents took real things Jesus did and exaggerated. He came ‘eating and drinking’ and they called him a man gluttonous and a wine bibber. When he went to Zacchaeus’ house, HIs opponents said He was going to be the guest of a man who was a sinner, and Zaccheaus repented.
Troy Day He ate, but they called Him a glutton. He drank, but they called Him a winebibber. He did eat and drink, but not to excess as His opponents claimed.
naaah – that’s hardly what the verse tells us
Troy Day do you say the Son of Man did NOT come eating or drinking?
He ate right? Do you agree with rgat or do you think He always fasted?
I am saying there is not a single verse in the Bible that claims Jesus drunk wine That’s all Do you know one?
Troy Day There are acouple of passages that strongly imply it. It is unreasonable to assume that He did nit based on His statement that the Son of Man came eating and drinking. Biblically, there is no reason to think that He did not. Fundamentalist teetolarism had not been invented yet. It is silly and anachronistic to read it back into the text.
There might have been one man who was not a Nazarite or Jacobite who tried teetotalarism-Timothy. Paul told him to keep himself pure but to drink a little wine for his stomach’s sake. Preaching that alll drinking alcohol is sin evolved out of Wesley’s preaching against drinking distilled liquor and even hevdrabk a glass of wine daily when he was in poor health.
Why would scripture tell deacons to not be given to an excess of wine if it were absolutely forbidden to drink any?
Strongly imply is not saying They certainly do NOT use the word WINE either. I’ve Strongly implied you are not too Pentecostal but I have never said it {yet} https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/1853989961322677/
Winebibber was the accusation-an accusation of excess of what He was actually doing as with the food. I editted prev comment.
Pls see the comment made above about the meaning of that accusation Roger David put it to rest though Tom Steele went backwards and never answered the question
Troy Day does you assessment of how “Pentecostal” I am have anything to do with my salvation or whether ky life pleases God?
Link Hudson you still havent shown a verse have you? That kind a proves it in my book if you know what I mean BTW {laughing} if you have a KY life I have a TN life 🙂 Glad your spell checker did not say you have a KY wife in regard of your YouTube videos on multiple wives and such 🙂
Troy Day can you show any scripture to show tgat Jesus did not drink wine? He turned water into wine and let others drink it. What do you think was in the cup at the last supper? An unkosher becerage with yeast in it? Water? Tomato juice?
Troy Day Jesus said He desired to eat the Passover with the disciples. Did He keep it or violate it?
Made wine – doesnt say drunk wine. No verse says that. I asked Tom Steele the only question that makes sense in your tiradе –
“Nazarite” comes from the Hebrew word נזיר nazir meaning “consecrated” or “separated” How did they took part in the Passover if it was all wine?
Troy Day Jesus was called the Nazarine not Nazarite. John did not drink wine. Jesus ate and drank.
That’s beyond the point and does not answer the question about the Passover wine We know Jesus was not Nazarite because he touched dead bodies and more. How did Nazarites partake from Passover ? – no one is answering
It is an absolutely established fact that Jesus’ disciples, as well as the broader first-century readership of the gospel accounts, understood Jesus’ phrase “fruit of the vine” to refer to juice from grapes There is ongoing debate as to whether the grape juice was fermented or unfermented
There is a good reason why the gospel writers said Cup of the Covenant and not wine of the covenant. It is basically the Holy Grail of question 🙂
Troy Day grape juice had yeast in it. Dead yeast could be sloughed off after complete fermentation so wine could be kosher for Passover. It is only in the 20th cebtury that unfermented processed grape juice processed with modern technology could be considered kosher for passover.
The OT does bot require wine for Passover. Nazarites were okay on that one. I am assumimg the Pharisees did not create an exception to the vow somehow as a form of doctrinal corruption putting teadition over scripture.
I see your points and what great points they all are Still NO direct verse in the Bible saying Jesus drunk wine 🙂
Troy Day ir that He ate olives, or took a bath other than at His baptism or that He went to the equivalent of the restroom. But there is more direct evidence for His drinking wine in scripture tgan these other things.
you;ve done a lot of things too except showing a verse
I don’t think Yeshua could have been a Nazarite, the only suggestion I have heard that makes any sense about that is that He took a Nazarite vow at that last Passover. This is a theory some have proposed, stating that He is even still to this day serving His Nazarite vow that will conclude at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb when He drinks again. That sounds good, but it’s also heavily theoretical.
As noted, He touched dead bodies, so He would not have been in such a vow at least until POSSIBLY entering the vow at the Passover just prior to His execution.
Maybe this has been brought up, I have not been through all of the comments, but on what authority would anyone have accused Him of being a “winebibber” if He did not ever drink wine and therefore nobody would have seen Him drinking wine? The mere accusation indicates that His accusers would have seen Him drinking wine, wouldn’t it?
yes Tom Steele This is well known-he touched dead ppl This is not the question we are discussing here
Sorry, I thought you were trying to ask me about if He took a Nazarite vow. That appears to be the specific thing you asked in the comment you tagged me in.
How are you explaining Luke 7:34?
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%207:34
I asked you how Nazarites participated in the Passover
Link misread it that I am saying Jesus was a Nazarite which he was not
Roger David explained Lk 7 34 above
WOW just wow 100 comments later and no one can point us to a verse that says Jesus had wine Not Rick, not Tom, not Link not Phil
Could that be because Jesus never had wine?
I am so ever amazed by the state of bumper sticker theology today http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/dr-french-l-arrington-the-bible-and-alcoholic-beverages-beer-wine-liquors-and-total-abstinence/
OK, sorry for misunderstanding then I guess. I was looking into that and cannot find any information on it, and it is an interesting question. I suppose I can reach out to some people who might be able to assist if it’s that important to you. I guess I also never gave it much thought either.
Though, I am wondering, and I would have to go back and double check, but is wine or any form of the “fruit of the vine” part of the actual Torah instructions for Passover? It seems to me, the only thing actually commanded was to eat the lamb with bitter herbs, and following was to have seven days eating unleavened bread. If there is no actual commandment to drink wine/grape juice/whatever, then there is no reason why a Nazarite could not keep the Passover.
Was there a special excuse for them to participate in the Passover, alike Link and others have observed non-drinking churches have wine for Communion or was the wine just plain juice like in some other churches we’ve observed?
He drank wine but it wasn’t as it is todays wine and you can drank wine a small amount of it like one class a day it is good for the body but I don’t drank it I don’t like the stuff
Tom Steele another hermeneutical point if I may make it beyond the answer of Roger David
IF we take Lk 7 34 to be true which it is not
we have to then by logic accept that Jesus not only drunk but was a drunkard as the verse plainly says – it was all a false accusation and could not mean Jesus drunk just a little wine every now and then Most certainly the verse does not in ANY way refer to Passover
He said He ate. They exaggerrated what He did and said He was a glutton. He drank as He admitted. They exaggerated and said ut was to excess, calling Him a winebibber.
he said she said – still no plain verse to say Jesus drunk wine
Troy Day the OT did not require wine for Passover.
well someONE finally admits it – GREAT POINT
I will look deeper into it, but I just pulled Exodus 12, Leviticus 23, Numbers 9, and Deuteronomy 16, the four places in the Torah that detail the Passover, and not one of them mentions the use of wine (or the fruit of the vine, grapes, grape juice, etc.) as part of the Passover celebration. All indications would be that this is later tradition. It’s not a “bad” tradition, just study the “four cups of Passover” and the significance given to them, and it’s a beautiful addition to Passover. Plus, all indications are that Jesus followed this four cup system and that it was either the third or fourth cup (can’t remember off the top of my head) that He refused.
In any case, I see no Torah commandment to drink any specific thing at Passover. The only thing commanded for consumption is the lamb cooked in fire with bitter herbs. So, that would be enough to allow a Nazarite to celebrate the Passover, just without the added tradition of the four cups of wine (or grape juice… I use grape juice at all the biblical Feasts because I to maintain a belief in abstinence from drinking alcohol, though I am open to anyone proven conclusively that Jesus drank wine, and if that can be proven conclusively, I’d be open to using wine at least during the Feasts, in moderation that does not allow for drunkenness… but it would take hard evidence for me the do that, and I don’t think such hard evidence would ever be obtainable).
one other verse worth looking into Link Hudson and Tom Seems in Corinth they actually began using real wine 1 Cor 11 Seems also this was not acceptable for Paul and he wrote them NOT to get trunk lest some of them may die taking the Supper unworthy
Troy Day Are you reading my whole comments, or just to the point where you have to click to “See More”? I feel like you are not getting everything I am putting out.
For the most part FB has been blocking your Link historically for whatever reason and beef they have with you At least I cant see much from your posts I have been trying to go directly to your blog and read your stuff there directly
The Corinthian question though – did Jewish churches know not to use real wine as in the Passover and Gentile churches went all the way Greek Dionysus style fiesta on the Lords Supper?
Luke 7:34 points out that Yeshua was accused of being a winebibber/drunkard. It would seem that the only way someone would have valid authority to make this accusation would be if they saw Him literally drinking wine. Maybe not to the point of getting drunk, but they would have had to at least seen Him drink it at some point. How to you explain the accusation being made if there was never a witness to Him drinking? (Let everything be established by two or three witnesses, right?)
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%207:34
Jesus and John were raised in the same community in the wilderness. They were raised NOT to drink wine – well known fact
That’s fine, but that doesn’t really answer the question. Again, I am pro-abstinence, I want to emphasize that. But on what authority could someone make this accusation if nobody ever saw him drink wine at all? There is no basis for it if He never drank it, even in moderation.
It does not answer the question nor implies he drunk This verse proves nothing No NT verse says Jesus drunk wine
Troy Day No, Jesus was raised in Nazareth. Do you have any evidence that people from Nazareth did not drink wine? Mary lived in Nazareth, and she asked Jesus for help when a wedding at Cana, about three miles from Nazareth, ran out of wine. They drank wine in Cana. In fact, some men would get drunk at a feast, and then the hosts would bring out the bad wine.
Troy Day I don’t know about that, and nobody else has expressed issues with that in any other groups. I’m talking about comments on THIS post, where a longer comment cuts off and you have to click that little “See More” link to open the rest of the comment.
I don’t think you are seeing everything I am saying though, because I pointed out that there is no commandment in the Torah to have wine at Passover before Link Hudson did. But my statement was at the end of a longer comment that cut off and you have to click to open the rest of the comment.
Some of your comments have been this long too and I have had to do the same to read the whole comment.
Its been an ongoing discussion in theology for a long time http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/dr-french-l-arrington-the-bible-and-alcoholic-beverages-beer-wine-liquors-and-total-abstinence/
Tom Steele back in the day Melvin Harter had a good point on the Corithians drinking in verses 18-19. There were divisions and heresies in the Corinthian Church. Has it been considered that their drunkenness in vs 21 was their heresy?
A heresy is a division.
From another way round. In light of 2 Sam 16:1, Israelites have their own method already developed since long past to dry grapes, from which no doubt they get juice. In fact, for any who wants to avoid wine, they have another option of drink. Jesus might be one among them, I guess.
Fermented wine was the option kosher for passover
no prove whatsoever for that from the Bible
Read it again, please. “When David had passed a little beyond the summit, Ziba the servant of Mephibosheth met him, with a couple of donkeys saddled, bearing two hundred loaves of bread, a hundred bunches of RAISINS, a hundred of summer fruits, and a skin of wine.”
2 Samuel 16:1 ESV
http://bible.com/59/2sa.16.1.esv
Raisins = a partially dried grape.
Link Hudson So why did Proverbs forbid fermented wine if they don’t have another option than that?
Thangsan Hisfootstep it did not.
Troy Day grape juice contained yeast.
Link Hudson please, read this again Proverbs 20:1; 21:17; 23:29-35; 31:4, etc.
Thangsan Hisfootstep did you read Proverbs 31:6 while you were reading? You mentioned a verse about not loving wine and oil. That is not the same as forbidding wine. Do you think it is a sin to fry in oil? To put oil in the salad dressing, or to put olive oil on as lotion? Why would wine be forbidden. If we consume too much expensive stuff it can lead to poverty. Psalm 104 tells us God gave man wine to gladden the heart and oil to make his face shine.
Warnins against excess and outright foridding are not the same thing.
Do you have any evidence that Passover wine was made from raisins? Have you ever tried making grape juice from raisins?
I have several but I will wait on bro. Tom Steele to bring us his find before I present my conclusion For one, little male children also participated in the Passover and they still do
They mixed wine with water. LIttle children participated with ‘real wine’ in Jewish tradition, didn’t they, certainly until recently.
naah
This article summarizes part of the Talmud on the issue. http://frankbellizzi.blogspot.com/2009/01/wine-of-passover-and-lords-supper.html
Sometimes, following the ‘See More’ link leads to a page with no article, at least on my phone and computer.
Troy Day That is not a reasonable interpretation, that Paul opposed ‘real wine’ in I Corinthians 11. If that were his idea, it is noticebly absent from the passage. He mentions two extremes– one man is hungry and another is drunken. Neither extreme was acceptable. The verse shows they used ‘real wine’– which was just a fact of life back then. They did not have Welch’s. The issue is moderation. Everyone should have eaten. No one should have had excess. The fact that ‘real wine’ was the beverage consumed was not an issue.
The New Testament repeatedly says not to partake of excess of wine. If you told your kids not to eat too much chocolate, would it be reasonable for them to infer that all eating of chocolate was strictly forbidden?
Gotta love FB…
I have heard from another Pastor in the AoG that they believe this is the issue that will bring a split in the AoG. Alcohol. How sad if that happens…God forbid.
when it should be divorce and remarriage !
combined – does divorce lead to drinking or drinking to divorce ?
Neither. Both drunkeness and divorce are symptoms of underlying spiritual problems.
Troy Day Do you have a source about theo ld Jewish churches.
Roger David not just our Ag I think Link speaks of Cog and ORU too
Link Hudson you have now moved from theology to the field of general biology and wine making technology but you still have not shown a single verse from the Bible that says Jesus drank wine
Troy Day Multiple wives? YouTube videos? I have posted videos about divorce and remarriage. Otherwise I do not know what you are talking about.
I have shown one that strongly imples it. There is no Biblical reason to think that Ge did not.
The events of scriptue did not occur in a vaccuum. We should take culture and history into account.
Cant make a doctrine on a single verse that does not say but just strongly imply it Roger David Thangsan Hisfootstep When Tom Steele bring us a report on the nazarete vow eating the passover I will make up my mind on OT use of wine in holy sacraments and temple worship I have strong OT verse base that many in not most in ministry used no wine at all; Tom if you just copy paste the whole text instead of just a link that FB could block pls I hear random reports like William DeArteaga blocked from responding to ppl FB is getting to be a strange platform Thank GOD we’ve archived most on http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/
It’s funny you say this because it seems you have made doctrine saying Jesus never drank when the scriptures never explicity say He never did. They actually imply the opposite.
Phil can you show a verse where Jesus drank wine?
Can you show a verse that explicitly says He never did?
Every verse in the NT says he never did I see the argument from silent you are making and its a nice try but you see yourself how it doesnt prove anything. When it is all said and one 27 books in the NT, 290 chapter over 8000 verses and not one saying Jesus drunk wine This proves it
No Sir. It does not say that He emphatically did not drink wine. It neither positively confirms He did either. Your post is appears to be argumentative and you seem to be just brow beating people with your own opinions and doctrines that are not definitively supported by scripture. It is okay to debate scriptures and opinions as long as you are open to hear and accept other sides as possibilities unless you are able to emphatically prove them wrong. It is not okay to bully people theologically, especially on dividing topics as this when you do not have definitive, explicit scripture to so. Even if you do have the scriptural support, it is never okay to bully people. To say that only your way is correct when there is lack of evidence and to not even consider other peoples sides when there the same lack of evidence comes off as arrogant and prideful. Why should anyone continue to share anything with someone when that person will only accept or consider the conclusions they have already have come to? Is that a teachable heart?
No Sir. The absence of the fact of saying He emphatically did drink wine does not prove He did not drink wine. It neither positively confirms He did either. Your post appears to be argumentative and you seem to be just brow beating people with your own opinions and doctrines that are not definitively supported by scripture. What is the point of this post? It is okay to debate scriptures and opinions as long as you are open to hear and accept other sides as possibilities unless you are able to emphatically prove them wrong. It is not okay to bully people theologically, especially on dividing topics as this when you do not have definitive, explicit scripture to so. Even if you do have the scriptural support, it is never okay to bully people. But to communicate truth in love. To say that only your way is correct when there is lack of evidence and to not even consider other peoples sides when there the same lack of evidence comes off as arrogant and prideful. Why should anyone continue to share anything with someone when that person will only accept or consider the conclusions they have already have come to? Again, what is the point of this post?
still no verse? just general talk
Troy the same here. Still no emphatic verse proving your point. Just talk. Whats the point?
OP is the point – can you answer OP?
Yes. I say yes, it is a possibility. You can’t even consider the text that implies that He may have. You won’t accept the text that implies that He could have. You say He did not, and state that the absence of proof text that He did, supports that He did not. This is in error. Text can not emphatically prove that He did or did not. I have continued to ask to you provide proof text to support your position that Jesus emphatically did not drink wine. Neither side can provide solid proof text either way. What is the point of the OP?
Jesus contrasted Himself with John the Baptist. He said, “For John came neither eating nor drinking and they (the Pharisees) say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard’” (Matt. 11:18-19). He did not offer an apology for His behavior. He had done nothing for which to apologize http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/dr-french-l-arrington-the-bible-and-alcoholic-beverages-beer-wine-liquors-and-total-abstinence/
what is your youtube channel ?
SaidaraLink
That is aindonesian for brother Link
Phil Brown Jr. Like I already said I see the point you want to make but its just not there – in the text If you so insist I will be more than happy to take the Lk 7 passage in the original greek as a separate topic and we can look into it together but the wine is just not there – not even implied
It is funny you can get stuff out of the Greekthat Greek speakers couldnot rmecen see. This is basic semantics. How could Greek grammar help.
Actually no. The verse does not contain the word wine straight forward All your betting on Lk 7 has been precisely the semantics of the English translations while the Greek is pretty clear that in fact Jesus did NOT drink
So you are saying that the Greek says somwthing different than all the other English transations? Why has not all the Greek transkators caught this mistranlation over all this time?
I am saying the Greek does not say wine; neither implies it So you can make your doctrine from general culture, biology, technology or even frontology if you wish but cant make it from the Bible It’s just not there Not even implied
Link Hudson Phil Brown Jr. your only bet here would be on John 19:29–30 but it comes with a catch
29 A jar full of sour wine was sitting there; so they fixed a sponge full of sour wine on a hyssop branchp and held it up to his mouth.
30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished.”q Then bowing his head, he gave up his spirit.r
Yes ,it was staple food for the middle east together wiz bread. But they would dilute concentrated wine of 10ltrs with 5ltrs of water.to dillute it. Even today is still outsanding custom
so you are saying Jesus and all with him were drunk all the time?
Troy Day there’s a difference between drinking wine and drinking to the point you get drunk.
Yes he did. If not wine specifically, some other beverage with alcohol. Otherwise the Pharisees would not have been able to accuse him of being a drunkard. I’m not saying he was a drunk. Drinking alcohol doesn’t make you a drink. But you can’t call someone a drunkard if they don’t drink alcohol.
so yes He did but he did not?
According to history, most people that could drank wine, because the water was not good and used to wash clothes and with along bodily functions, drained or dumped into most waters. Just from what I was taught.
Most likely wine with less alcohol than today’s standards
Tastebuds less discerning? ? inebriated…
yeap, and it the bible clearly says and the culture backs that up. Not even just a little super watered down stuff either, enough that he got accused of being a drunkard.
so what you are saying Jesus was drunk for the most of it ?
Troy Day No he wasn’t…. he was only accused. Which was obviously a false accusation…
Yea. He was accused of being a wine bibber. He wasn’t a drunk though, so the accusation was false. They drank wine regularly in a social setting.
TBH….I looked up “wine bibber” lol
It’s an old saying for drunkard lol
I’m a wine bibber??
Sonya Blade lol….I’ll be praying for you ??
?
Yes. Clearly. Luke 7:33-35
“33. John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34***The Son of Man has come eating and drinking***, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”
Jesus himself said that he drank wine in this passage. Notice the context.
Absolutely, made it as well
The word juice is used in the Bible. If it was any other beverage, then that’s what the Bible would say.
He told the disciples to sip the wine that was served at His supper.
Half of us don’t know WHAT we put in our mouths when we remember the Lord’s broken body and blood. Some of that ‘bread’ tastes and eats like gummy paper and looks like PUFFED rice.
Is there any wrong of dringking wine? In my opinion it depends on your purpose why you drink wine, it should not be defile your spiritual life as well.
JESUS said he will NOT drink it until NEW
Troy Day
Troy Day know your bible sir. The wine represent the blood of jesus christ in the Lord’s supper. If you tell me that is not a wine and it is a grape fruit juice then your salvation rots.
Troy Day I believe you left out the word again or from now on.. Matthew 26:17-30 New International Version (NIV)
The Last Supper
Yes
Of course. What kind of wine maker doesnt dirink his own brew? ?
the JESUS kind? BTW you dont brew wine FYI
Read proverbs 30 you will be shocked !
about JESUS?
Yes, but 0% alcohol
BJ Alemania Any scripture to back this up?
BJ Alemania
That would make it grape juice then, in the same way that cider without alcohol is apple juice – a different category of beverage. ?
BJ Alemania are you kidding me?
juice also ferments in the body
Scholars says yes, but without alcohol. It was juice of grapes which was know as wine in Jewish culture.
which scholars ?
Troy Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDflA3pCwj0
However, you can analyze by yourself in the Holy Scripture. For example, Luke 22: 18. For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
Troy Day The Lord can help you and me to understand about issue. Only ask to him.
Yes it’s common those days but I’m remember one thing “it’s unleavened bread and wine “.
what wine was common in those days?
Troy Day grapes juice, leaven and unleavened.
Yes but take note wine before is different not like the wine you see every where.. I also drink homemade wine like rice wine but little amount. Not to the extend you get drunk n you don’t know your self… Remember. Timothy he use it for medicine..for Jesus and the opostles it’s for the Holy Communion bread and wine…
there is no extend in being drunk – you either drunk or not
Yes.
Luke 7:34,36
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! …
is what OTHERS were saying about him
https://youtu.be/dTNI-rGNu0A
NOT the question here now is it?
Troy Day have you watch the video? He answers the question here.
Ryan Ceasar Borromeo by avoiding it 🙂
Troy Day You avoid it?
Yes and there’s nothing wrong in it
you cant be more wrong about it either
What the bible calls wine is actually grape juice. Strong wine is alcohol wine
good start – how do we determine which one
There are few issues that compete with this one in my experience as examples of conformation bias!
give us all you got on this one
Does it matter?
obviously it does to the 100 ppl who commented
Of course He did!
Never ever not an alcoholic!!!
And how do you know? Bible never says u cannot drink wine. In fact paul told Timothy to for his stomach sake. He also said we were not to drink It to the point one gets drunk.
You make a good point. Most people don’t realize that the water had bacteria in it that would often cause stomach problems, so they would drink wine instead.
I was also taught that the fermenting process was different back then, and the alcohol content was far less than what we have in our wine today.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe the alcohol content in the wine back then was at best equivalent to what we have in our wine coolers.
Bernie Waldron do not know about that but alchohol is alchohol and God only rebuked the abuse of it not the dri k itself. Just like we are not abuse eating the point we get sick. Both are miner issues and way to much time is spent t on debating the issues
The wine you are condemning god created the grapes for it?
Yes Sir!
says who? says you or the BIBLE ?
Troy Day The Bible clearly shows it. Yes! Jesus drank alcohol ?
John West I am calling you out on this one
SHOW US WHERE pls
NT Book name chapter and verse
THANK YOU
Troy Day
Luke 7 indicates that Jesus drank alcohol at times. While John the Baptist did not drink wine, it is implied that Jesus did drink wine, for the religious leaders of the day accused Him of being a drunkard.
Troy Day Jesus said: “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'” (Luke 7:33–34).
Troy Day Jesus made and Served the best wine ever made. Read: According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine (John 2:10–11).
It’s not what enters a man that defiles him, but what comes out of his heart(for out of the heart comes…) . Lets never forget this , with Christ intent is prior to content… Even when questions were asked.
I don’t think the problem is the wine, but the sinfulness in our hearts to use everything as an opportunity to reveal the state of our hearts …His disciples ate food without washing hands, he healed on the sabbath…
If a knife is made to slice tomatoes and I use it to cut off someone’s ear, can I blame the person who made the knife?
God bless
SO you good with booze and CBD?
Troy Day, are those taken to celebrate God as Christ did in the last supper or for some other reasons, trying to be elated without God?
The heart of man wants to be like God and have extraordinary experiences without accepting God,as in the time of where the tower of Babel was build, to Invade the heavens and put our Gods there, throwing out the one true God, but I don’t think theres a problem with building houses or tall buildings. The problem is our heart.. That’s the point I’m trying to make
Troy Day CBD is not a problem it is not psychoactive. THC is psychoactive and it is used as an anti epilepsy medicine in conjunction with CBD. It is now shown to assist people with Parkinsons disease and people who have had trauma to the head.
Morphine is extremely addictive and is used to alieviate pain in people with cancer etc.
When used medically how will you rate it?
LOTS a ppl here just like drinking but have NO theology to back it up Neil Steven Lawrence Philip Williams Larry Dale Steele
NO…!!!! He is a Nazarite, they are of the vow being one.
Ariel Rollepa you are confusing a Nazarite with a Nazareth. One is an oath and the other is a person from Nazareth. Jesus was a Nazareth, not a Nazarite.
Leo Villalobos He was…
Ariel Rollepa Jesus drank wine at Passover, as well as on the Sabbath. He turned water into wine his first miracle. Jesus was not a Nazarite.
http://www.doctrineanddevotion.com/blog/wine
Yes
HOW IS WINE DEPICTED IN SCRIPTURE?
Wine was the common drink of the Jews, enjoyed with meals and shared with friends (Gen. 14:18; Jn. 2:3). It was also an essential part in the worship of the people of God in both Testaments.
The “drink offering” consisted of wine (Ex 29:40; Lev. 23:13) and the people of God brought wine when offering sacrifices (1 Sm 1:24). The Jews even kept wine in the temple (1 Chr 9:29). In Isaiah 62:9 the people are blessed by the Lord in such a way as is depicted in drinking wine in the sanctuary before the presence of God. In Deuteronomy 14 we read “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. And you shall not neglect the Levite who is within your towns, for he has no portion or inheritance with you.”
— DEUTERONOMY 14:22–27
how are you commenting and NOT being part of this group ?
No. He had to fulfill ALL the law and prophets and psalms.
A priest could not drink while in office. Jesus is the high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. They called him a wine bibber and a devil. But of course he wasn’t either.
there you GO
Michael Wesolek Sr. A priest had to drink wine while in office. Wine was part of the sacraments, religious feasts. Also, the wine was mixed with water to make the water safe to drink. Basically a person in those times either drank wine or they died of dehydration or disease.
Dawn Marie Blankenship not the high priest, when he entered the holy of holies
Leviticus 10:9 – Do not drink wine nor strong drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.
They could not drink wine while they were ministering in the tabernacle.
Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers
(9) Do not drink wine.—As the command that the priests are to abstain from any intoxicating liquors when performing their sacred functions follows so closely upon the death of Nadab and Abihu, the opinion obtained as early at least as the time of Christ that there is a connection between the specific sin and the general law, that the two sons of Aaron drank wine to excess when they offered strange fire, and that the present prohibition is based upon that circumstance. Accordingly, the Apostle enjoins that a bishop “must not be given to wine,” that “deacons must not be given to much wine” (1Timothy 3:2-3). A similar law existed among the ancient Greeks and Persians, enjoining the priests to abstain from wine.
Nor strong drink.—The word (shēchār) here rendered strong drink, is the general name of intoxicating drinks, whether made of wheat, barley, millet, apples, dates, honey, or other fruits. One of the four intoxicating drinks which are prohibited among the Mahommedans in India is called “Sachar.”
When ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation.—Better, when ye go into the tent of meeting. The Palestinian Chaldee adds here, “as thy sons did who died by the burning fire.” The same precept is repeated in Ezekiel 44:21, “Neither shall any priest drink wine when they enter into the inner court.” The injunction that on these particular occasions the priests are to abstain from taking it clearly implies that, ordinarily, when not going into the tent of meeting—that is, when not performing their sacred functions in the sanctuary—they were not forbidden to use it if required.
There should be no objection to Jesus drinking wine. God asked the Israelites to tithe the wine as other products (Deut 12:17) and Jesus did not object to it in Cana, rather actively provided it. This is different from drunkenness or inappropriately exaggerated drinking. On the other hand we don’t have clear evidence Jesus drank wine or not. Meaning that is not consequential.
Jalal Aram Question: Why would Jesus serve wine to people his Apostles and not drink wine himself?
John West good question, but we simply don’t have clear evidence he did, right? It is possible he did, but not certainly he did. Perhaps he had no objection to it but just didn’t drink it. We just don’t have clear evidence he did. That’s all.
Jalal Aram safe answer. It’s like saying God gave humanity wine but restricted them from drinking it. ??
John West not exactly. The point is, if Jesus drinking (or not drinking) wine is of any value for our lives it would have been written. Did Jesus comb his hair? Did Mary have children after Jesus? If any of these and other questions is of value to our lives it would have been clearly written. It is safe to say Jesus had wine, he combed his hair and Mary had other children, but these were simply not mentioned because these are not important to our lives or to God’s plan.
Jalal Aram Clearly you are missing the true meaning of biblical interpretation.
The Bible reveals sufficient truth about God but not exhaustive truth. It does not tell us everything that God has revealed to His creation.
The Bible Is Selective In What It Reveals
Scripture informs us that not everything that Jesus said and did was recorded in the New Testament. The Gospel according John wrote.
Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name (John 20:30,31).
Scripture speaks of other times when God has spoken but the contents of what God said were not revealed. We know from John’s gospel that the words and events about the Lord Jesus that were recorded were only selective of the many more things that Jesus said and did. That’s why God continue to give us revaluation by way of the Holy Spirit to reveal knowledge and wisdom that was not written.
There’s nothing unbiblical about wine, in fact it is biblical! And yes, Jesus drank from “the fruit of the vine” and will do so again! So what exactly is the issue? It is drunkenness and being under an altered state of consciousness. The Bible tells us to be somber minded and clear thinkers. Let us stop the falsehoods that drinking wine is a sin or what rot!
Gina Draker I agree there is no problem if Jesus had wine. The question though is: did he? what is the evidence?
There would be no reason not to think that Jesus/Yeshua drank wine, as he was a first-century Jew. The ancients drank wine, celebrated ritual feast days with wine, and used wine in their daily meals. There is absolutely no competing evidence that the ancient Hebrews did not traditionally or culturally drink wine; unless there was a prophet who does not drink wine or alcohol and then the scripture makes that very clear why they were exempt from drinking it for a Godly purpose. However, this is never stated in the story of Jesus. We do know that Jesus used wine as a subject in parables and it is spiritually symbolic. Moreover, the only book of the Old Testament that doesn’t mention wine is in the book of Jonah. In Matthew 26:29
Jesus states quite clearly:
“I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine (wine) from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” This in itself would have you believe that Jesus had drank wine on earth during his incarnation. But let’s look a little closer. We see that Christ’s first miracle was the turning of water into wine at the wedding, and at the
last supper, we find him giving the wine as the symbol of his blood to be shed for sin.
Now let us closely examine the time and place in which Christ lived and note the drink of every region across the Holy Land, from Judea to Turkey to Greece and beyond, and in all these regions and people groups they historically drank wine. Archaeological evidence has a bounty of wine jars and vats and the ancient vineyards discovered that were used for wine production. Not only was wine considered beneficial for health, as it is today, it was especially useful to drink when compared to many nasty water born illnesses. So, wine was the common table drink found typically at every meal. It is historically accurate to add that more high quality wines were also enjoyed at high holy days and festivals and weddings. There was no way in that time that any kind of “juice” (ie grape juice) was able to be preserved without fermentation. Truly it is next to impossible in a place like Palestine, especially given the technology of their day.
More so, we find in Luke 7:33-34 Jesus himself proclaims:“For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!”
*Please note that the JKV rendering of “winebibber” is oinopotes in the Greek and literally means: wine drinker.
Thus, Jesus indeed drank wine! And why not? He created it!
We don’t know!
Jalal Aram very good answer
Yes ,it wa,s in the last suffer Jesus take the cup of wine and drink
Eric Licayan Passover. They drank four cups.
Eric Licayan what verse says cup of “wine”?
I DONT think Jesus drunk wine and there is NOT a single NT verse that can prove it either Show us at least 1
Troy Day I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” (Matthew 26:29, ESV)
Troy Day He also drank wine at Passover with his diciples.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu Was it wine or juice? Was it formented?
Brian Bailey It was wine. Grapes were not used for juice in Israel.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu Are you sure. They had new wine which was not fermented.
Brian Bailey Wine is always fermented. That’s what makes it wine. Wine was different back then. It was fermented off the vine and pressed. Also, wine was used often in feasts including the Sabbath. As commanded in the Torah.
Brian Bailey Wine is defined as fermented drink in almost every ancient society. Not as a juice.
Brian Bailey had to be fermented, there was no refrigeration. Also, it was mixed with the water to make the water safe to drink.
Brian Bailey There are several instances in scripture where the word wine is used, especially in the context of strong drink. Genesis is one example.
Dawn Marie Blankenship I’ve read studies that said wine was drunk because the water wasn’t safe to drink unless it was boiled first.
Brian Bailey Lastly, had Jesus turned water into grapejuice that wouldn’t have been very impressive at all. Not a miracle either. Anyone can turn water into grapejuice. However, had he turned it into wine, that is impressive and a miracle, because the fermenting process is an art and it takes a long time to get right. Not to mention that the host mentions people getting drunk. So it was a strong drink indeed.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu “The Mishna [a collection of oral Jewish traditions] states that the Jews were in the habit of drinking boiled wine” (Kitto’s Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, vol. 2, p. 447). Naturally, this wine would be entirely free of alcohol as a result of the boiling, if not also from the manner of preservation.
Brian Bailey The mishnah is a book of tradition. The Jews drank wine. The Bible proves that. Not the Mishnah. Interesting that you would think the Mishnah would have more creditability than the Bible.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu You ignore that it says the Jews drank non-fermented wine. The word wine could mean fermented or non-fermented..
Brian Bailey No, I disregard the Mishnah because it doesn’t line up with what the Bible says about wine. The Mishnah is a traditional book. Little understand it. It’s not the Bible, and holds little historical authority. Not to mention it was written centuries later.
Brian Bailey The Bible proves that the Jewish people drank wine, a strong drink. From Genesis to Revelation. Wine is not defined as anything else. That fact that you use the Mishnah to disprove the Bible is a little odd to me.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu The Bible says wine. It does not say it was fermented.
Brian Bailey The Bible describes wine as a fermented drink. You are way off. The definition of wine is a fermented drink. The host says that Jesus saved the best wine for now. He also mentions getting drunk on the previous wine.
Brian Bailey Alright, I’m obviously fighting a losing battle here, especially when you use the Mishnah. If you can’t think logically and learn the truth, there is no point in me going in circles. Good day.
it would literally take drinking for hours and hours to get drunk off their wine. So no Jesus never bothered drinking all day. He was too busy smacking devils around in the face.
Brian Bailey if wine is not fermented why does the bible say Noah got drunk on wine? Jesus turned water into wine. Are you saying that word is not perfectly preserved 100%? That the word wine does not actually mean wine? Dangerous path to start that.
Chris Hutchinson I said not ALL wine needed to be fermented
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu I didn’t disprove the Bible. I was trying to get clarification.
Chris Hutchinson Indeed.
Brian Bailey so one verse is actually wine and one isn’t? Even tho they both clearly say wine??
Yes!
Yes he in fact did.
Yes he did
Yeah
If he drank it He certainly didn’t drink it to the point of intoxication as that would be sinful and He was sinless.
Hes God. Drunken is a mortal issue
Guys all i can say, read bible hardly
Mariefe Villarente Indeed
Hardly, as in infrequently?
Yes God drink a wine.and i will say u most read it in proverb 31 , he drink wine at norm time i think, kindly correct me if im wrong..God bless everyone
Yes, what you think he was drinking water at cana?
Why we would say something the Bible did not say.
Chris Hutchinson So what did they call juice…you NEVER see the word juice in NT scripture but documents say that drinking non-fermented wine was common.
Probably. Did he get drunk, no way!
Is driving a sin:no.
Do i recommend drinking: no
Obviously I meant is drinking a sin, lol
Brian Bailey they probably called it juice. Do we not have a separate word for juice and wine? I think it would be fair to say every language has a separate word, and anyway I hardly think they had diluting juice back then. Up until later Centuries why was always drunk as the drink of choice. Why at a wedding Would they have drunk juice? The wine was because it was a celebratory drink. There was other delicacies like Goats milk they would have chose if it was for any other reason.
Chris Hutchinson Then what word did they use?
Brian Bailey I don’t know, but they would not have called it after something else just for the sake of it. If they didn’t have a word for juice, but had juice they would have made a word for it.
Water did not store well in barrels. It often became contaminated. Alcohol was more resistant to contamination which is why for thousands of years man depended on Alcohol. Not the best way to hydrate but it worked.
It takes a lot more faith to believe He didn’t than He did.
No. No.
Guys chill, we live in a modern world, me as a woman..i experience many things..and drink with friends..its help us grow being a human. Coz for all experiences even it is good or wrong u most counted it, and called experience, all have freedom, God is a fair God.and nobody’s perfect. So for me, we can drink wine but No to drunk, and we need repentance and forgiveness if we are trespass, and follow God before its too late, lov u all and God bless everyone and be blessed ??❤
Mariefe Villarente In Judaism, Wine is a Holy drink.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu well maybe, but in our generation, wine is normal
Mariefe Villarente No I agree with you. But others act as if it’s evil. We Jews bless the wine before drinking it.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu yup in Biblical history,,,,
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu it’s also a drink.
Stewart MacLeod i agree
Yes he drank wine. Did He get drunk? No!
Neil Steven Lawrence No
tell it to the cops when they pull you over
Troy Day The event of Jesus changing water to wine as described shows that the wine was alcoholic in content. He also said at the last supper, “I will not drink the fruit of the vine with you until I am with you in my father‘s kingdom.“
Will we drink wine in heaven? Yes!
I cannot prove to you from Scripture that it is illegal to drink wine for a Christian. But I can prove to you from Scripture that it is illegal to be drunk.
Troy Day ? that dude‘s (in Atlanta) problem was that he resisted arrest; that is the case in almost every situation where the police overreact. So the real problem our nation is facing is “lawlessness”not for the police brutality. it is illegal to resist arrest and if you do you get another charge on top of what you’re being arrested for.
Neil Steven Lawrence in what verse that u found that its illegal to get drunk?
Mariefe Villarente Paul says, “do not get drunk with wine, but
be filled with the Holy Spirit.“ Eph. 5:18
See also:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-drinking-alcohol/
Neil Steven Lawrence wow i love it..thanks to God.?❤filled our heart with holy spirit i llove this
Yes!
When Jesus was at the wedding feast, the bar tender told Jesus he was cutting him off and that he would only be able to have water.
Jesus answered and said unto him: “Verily, verily, I can work with water. . . No problem.”
You again, are you board and fee the need to troll Troy Day
No
Not fermented wine.
My Lord was without sin, without blemish.
Nor will He cause others to stumble.
This question continues to divide His Body.
Most often people use Jesus’ first miracle to justify their indulgence.
The Jesus I serve is pure, holy and without sin.
Mark Pliska Amen.Glory to God?
Mark Pliska Drinking wine isn’t a sin.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu No
Mark Pliska the Bible does not say it is a sin to drink. It says we are not to to be drunk due to excess. The Bible speaks more against gluttony then it does against drinking.
Some religions take liberties in changing the Words of God because things don’t fit their religious ideals or because of self- righteouness.
Under the LAW there were grain, [wine] and oil offerings made to God as required.
If it was “grape juice” as some teach God would have said so but to the contrary it was called “strong drink” fermented.
*Jesus’s very first miracle was turning many large jars of water into wine.
That’s what constituted it a MIRACLE… wine has to (age) some time to be considered a (fine wine).
Please read-
John 2:10-11
Linda Bolen Exactly.
So the Bible only dealt with wine. There is no mention of juice in the new testament.
Yes I believe he did,it appears in scripture that Jesus took a cup of wine and said this is my blood poured out for many. And he then stated later I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine again again until I drink it wit you in my fathers kingdom.
Yes – He did. Which is not sinful. He was not drunk.
yes
Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Uche Alo but wasn’t drunk
Yes, but not to the point of being drunk. We know He partook in wine. At the wedding in Cana when Jesus turned the water into wine, the Greek word we get wine from is Oinos. It’s the same word Paul used in Ephesians when warning believers not to drink to the point of being drunk. It’s also the same word used when he tells Timothy drinking it in moderation will help his stomach.
There are many valid reasons to warn people against drinking in our culture, namely that it has negative connotations with many they would effect our witness. But we do more harm than good when we claim the Bible forbids drinking all togetherness.
Joel Murrah in the process of wine making
The wine has to age that is get old.
Old wine isn’t fresh its old.
The governor of the feast tasted new or the best wine. Jesus doesn’t make old he makes all things new
Two glasses of pure water.
One ounce of alcohol in one,
Five ounces of alcohol in the other
Which one is drunk ?
Both, just one is more drunk
the water is not pure any more
Drink the pure living water of Gods Holy Word
Yes
Yes
Yes
And Pentecostal don’t do theology well
Yup and he also taught it’s not for everyone.
No, because Jesus was an American Evangelical with all their hang ups.
Sure He did
Yes, but at the last super he said he would not taste of the fruit of the vine again until we all meet at the feast.
Jesus was the human incarnation of the Creator God of the Old Testament (John 1:1-3, 14). Fifteen hundred years earlier, when He commanded through Moses how the children of Israel should observe the various Feasts of the Lord, He declared that part of their celebration including purchasing and partaking of wine and strong drink (Deuteronomy 14:26). HOW the mere drinking of these beverages became a sin, I do not know. Do you remember that Jesus’ first miracle was changing water to wine? Certainly the wedding guests would be drinking the wine He made! According to Scripture, it is only a sin to be DRUNK with wine.
Anthony R. Vacanti there are 13 Greek words translated into the english word wine.
There are 8 Hebrew words translated into the English word wine.
If I used one word how would you translate it? Come over for a (DRINK) what do I mean by drink. Milk, soda, coffee, tea , water, booze …what word do i mean by (DRINK)
Anthony R. Vacanti the wine taster said: why did you save the best wine till now? Most people start with the good stuff and then when the guests are drunk you bring out the cheap stuff
Michael Wesolek Sr. While there may be 13 Greek words in literature that can be or is translated wine, that is not true in the New Testament: New Testament writers use only two words: The first is “oinos.” It is a fermented beverage as evidenced by the reaction of the steward when he tasted it (John 2:10). Such a response cannot be applied to mere grape juice! Oinos is used when Jesus turned water into wine, AND it is used when Paul wrote in Ephesians 5:18: “Be not drunk with wine (oinos) wherein is excess.” The other Greek word, “gleukos” is used only once, and it is also a fermented beverage as evidenced by its use: On the Day of Pentecost, when the disciples were speaking in tongues, they were accused of being drunk, or, “full of new wine” (Acts 2:13). In the Old Testament there are actually 13 Hebrew words translated “wine.” The verse I cited in my original reply where God encouraged Israel to celebrate His Feasts with wine and strong drink is the Hebrew word, “yayin.” It is a fermented drink as evidenced by Noah’s drinking “yayin” and getting drunk in Genesis 9:21. Again, drinking wine in not forbidden in Scripture, only drinking it to excess and getting drunk is.
Anthony R. Vacanti two pure glasses of water.
1 ounce if alcohol in one glass, 5 ounces of alcohol in the other
Which one is drunk ? Both are, one must a little more than the other.
Drink the pure water of God’s word
Yes and in Heaven the wine is going to be amazing! So excited for the wedding feast!
It was non fermented wine.
Donald Peacock juice?
Where does it say non fermented? Fermentation is what makes juice wine.
Monique Davis in there culture it was frowned upon to get drunk. Now we know fermentation will take place so the drink was two parts water and one part wine.
Donald Peacock Can’t take it upon yourself to make assumptions. God made the fruit of the vine and all phases of its metamorphoses. It’s the word FILLED and STRONG we have to look at KNOWING the Gin, Vodka, and Tequila are STRONG but that a sip doesn’t caused full drunkenness.
With wine, a whole glass will not intoxicate a man…
Look up juice in the Bible, then try to tell us that Christ didn’t know how distinguish it from WINE in His word. Wine that He made.
Monique Davis I don’t make assumptions. Study their culture! The reasons why there are so many issues that people have with the bible is that they don’t understand culture.
Donald Peacock is this culture in the Bible? Where’s your scripture from Leviticus. He gave instructions for how to prepare meat and all necessary specificities there. So you SHOULD have a scripture to support this thing you’re saying was a command from God. This is about what GOD SAID, and not something else people developed over time.
Jesus Christ’s never talks about mixing wine concoctions with water.
Remember, ALL things are made by God.
Donald Peacock
Donald Peacock this thing you’re talking about has no bearing on what is expected or acceptable by God.
Monique Davis Dude don’t come at me with Wikipedia. I am a teacher and I don’t allow Wikipedia. If you want to know lets talk but don’t attack.
Don’t come at me with concepts uninspired by GOD in antiquity… Concepts that show YOU don’t have the reverence for God to not add to His word or put words in His mouth…
You can’t even distinguish God from wicked men, so how ’bout you don’t come at me at all…
You Have NO biblical and NO spiritual support for what you believe. ?
How can I show you what NOT IN THE BIBLE.
Monique Davis it’s impossible to show someone what isn’t in the Bible only God can do that. It’s called Revelation.
Andrew Pieper it is not faith, but likelihood. Yes, it is more likely he had wine, it is simply not mentioned.
I wish I could have drank some of that wine Jesus made at the wedding feast!??
Lk 7:33-34 clearly indicates that Jesus did indeed drink wine. Wine was also included in the Passover meal.
Brian Foster New Wine.
Mark Pliska Luke didn’t specify age of the wine Jesus drank – nor would it make much difference. Wine was distinct from “strong drink” – which had a significantly higher alcohol content.
Jesus reference to “new” wine being put into old or new bottles was a teaching against syncretism – the mixing of the gospel with the traditions of men.
While Jesus was from Nazareth, there is no indication in Scripture that he took the Nazarite vow – which, among other things, would prohibit him from drinking wine or even eating grapes. (Numbers 6:2-4)
Yes French wine
Wine yes, part of Jews diet, alcohol no, like jesus would.sit down with his desciples drinking beer and other alcoholic breverage and doing acts like heathen sinner NO!!!!
Julius Leysa Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Getting drunk is a sin.
Julius Leysa the wine taster said: why did you save the best wine till now? Most people start with the good stuff and then when the guests are drunk you bring out the cheap stuff
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu alcohol is not in the bible. There is no text in the bible that they drink fermented drinks, I never know someone who drink alcohol who don’t like to be drunk. By the way have you read the story of Noah and Lot?
Julius Leysa Alcohol is in the Bible. It’s mentioned alot in the Bible.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu for example?
Almost every book in the Bible mentions Alcohol. Paul mentions it in his writings. It’s mentioned in Genesis. It’s also a Commandment to drink it in the Torah. It’s mentioned in the Prophets. It seems you have no idea what the Bible says.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu where? Did the Bible.say you drink strong drink fermented one’s?
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu what book and verse so that we change our views in the subject matter?
Julius Leysa https://www.openbible.info/topics/drinking_alcohol
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu did you know the difference of wine and alcoholic beverages?
Julius Leysa It’s all over the Bible.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu give me the verse sir? Don’t give me reading stuff from modern Christian perspective who doesn’t know rather than fulfilling there self desire and longing. It all over the Bible yet you can not cite one. WHERE?
Julius Leysa Wine is alcohol
Nothing to prove this
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu wine made of grapes. It doesn’t naturally an alcoholic beverage like others. Jews custom is for diet and religious festivals. They even drink it during the Lord supper. If you say wine is alcoholic beverages and make it an excuse to get drunk then you are mislead. Alcohol is made in that very purpose.
Julius Leysa Wine is a fermented drink. Do you not know what wine is? Wine was drank all through the Bible. Wine was drank by Jesus at Passover. When you ferment grapes it gets turned into Alcohol.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu did the Bible says the wine they are drinking is fermented?
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu or has a high alcohol content?
Julius Leysa That’s literally the definition of wine
There is WINE….and there is GRAPE JUICE….jesus drank wine
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu your adding to scripture.
Wine has alcohol. Otherwise it wouldn’t be wine.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu that’s your only opinion.
It’s not opinion…jesus drank wine…it is scriptural
Julius Leysa No, the scripture talks about strong drink and wine. I haven’t added anything to scripture.
Yes – and it was fermented specifically. They even made a comment at the party about how they had the good wine out first (the wine Jesus made)
He was perfect without sin
No way he drank wine
Peter Whiteman Wine drinking isn’t a sin. In fact, to drink wine is a Commandment in the Torah.
The fact that He drank wine, and served wine to people, is evidence that wine drinking is not a sin. However, when He did that some people spoke badly of Him, saying they were right to ignore His preaching because He was “a glutton and a winebibber”.
Mikael Ben-Eliyahu it impairs you judgement
My Lord and savior would never do that
Peter Whiteman He drank wine at Passover and the Sabbath.
Peter Whiteman // it impairs you judgement
My Lord and savior would never do that //
That’s an interesting theory, how do your deal with the fact that he did drink wine, and also served it out? Does that blow your mind?
He created grapes and the law of fermentation. And he said he will drink it anew one day. Wine is not a sin. Drunkenness is however.
Bobby Michaels EXACTLY… The entirety of the metamorphoses in each phase.
Those same grapes are made to turn to raisins….
Is there anything in Leviticus or anywhere telling them to mix wine with water?
No sin in drinking wine…only silly baptist believe that
Driving a car is far out to recless driving.
Carol Myers Thank you Carol.